回复雪花漂飘的评论:
我可以说，你可能很年轻，自己还没结婚也没孩子，有些事情你无法感受。武梅是个例，she isn't an ordinary people, sorry to say that.
有时间的话，读些心理学方面的书，就会明白了为什么你的同事会为了离婚而自杀。
雪花漂飘 发表评论于
Of course, 武梅 may have some other reasons such as having a new man friend etc. That is also possible. Who knows? I wish she does not have that kind of problem.
I just explained from my understanding. Sorry for waste of your time.
雪花漂飘 发表评论于
回复goingplace的评论
First you may say what ever you like. I am trying to explain more.
Please put this in your mind:
Individual is different, and people may change now and then.
You said "但爱心不会因为孩子离家的失落感而突然消失吧!". I believe it can be. Because people may change because of some reason, it is completely possible to lost all living motivatio for a small reason.
Just 2 weeks ago, 1 guy in my office just suicided because his wife wanted to divorce. And I guess you will say, divorcing is not worth of suiciding. So people is really different, something not matter to me might be very critical to somebody else.
雪花漂飘 发表评论于
回复goingplace的评论:
Yes, YOU cannot understand, no problem, nobody requires you understanding it. However, I have seen this kind of situation. Some very nice people changed becuase of certain reason, what we are doing now is to find the reason that makes 武梅 changed. Maybe my guess is wrong, you rae right. It does not matter. I just say what I want to say.
回复goingplace的评论:
People may change after period, 武梅 was and is still not so career-oriented, but realized now that she does not have any social position, only depending on the family. And here I am also guessing, not know exactly. I do not like just putting strangely-behaving people to be bad people, people like us are not perfect, some better, some worse, we can learn how to improve ourself and help others improve.
I think 绿一 understands my point very well. And Your point is different, no wondering, as you are not me.
And I truely hope that 武梅 will get rid of her deep lost, and start new life.
雪花漂飘 发表评论于
回复绿一的评论:
I am not professional psychologist, but an IT engineer. I am just interested on the people's relationship, and try to understand why. Hopefully this will help your friends's family.
In the end, I would say that only deep love and understanding,solve the problem, nothing else.
However, if problem still exists, I may not help any more as I am not professional psychologist, professional one is different from my knowledge.
I understood an educated woman's lost because it is so common and easy situation.
And on ther hand, it would be good that some body 武梅 trusts can tell her that she should not be so rude to the family members though she is in deep lost. Actually it is really not the family members' fault, nobody forced her to be home in last 20 years, of course as I said, must somebody she can trust, not somebody she hates now.
Of course after some period (i do not how long) if she still is very rude and becomes worse, does not want to change her alttitude. Then I cannot help. Anyway, some people got crazy, can not get rid of him/herself fault, nobody can help.
雪花漂飘 发表评论于
As I said, 关爱 is enough. But she may need self-achievement, social position, not only good wife and mother.
雪花漂飘 发表评论于
回复绿一的评论:
You are right. And it may be more useful and better if 武梅's family, husband and 公婆 help her to earn the social position though her 20 years is almost waste from the career point of view, not only just her as a role of a mother. I believe that her family's member admired she has been being very good mother, but she wants now probably social position, and her dream of whatever.
回复雪花漂飘的评论:YES，YOU ARE RIGHT。武梅需要帮助。这是我在想不通的情况下写的文章。现在看了很多有益的跟贴，想通了几个重要的方面。非常感谢朋友们!当我看到你的跟贴里，那句她和她的老公都需要去。。。心理辅导这样的话，我就明白你在从专业的基点上说事情。谢谢你的人性支持!
我把所有跟贴都反复看过，已经做了总结。会通过适当的方法帮助她和他。
母亲节即将到了。朋友已经特别跟她的老公谈过。在母亲节前开始做准备，包括2个孩子亲手做的妈妈我爱你卡片，老公负责买花，然后请武梅去吃饭。关爱先从小事做起。慢慢会有效果的。
再次感谢!
雪花漂飘 发表评论于
And I suppose that 武梅 even herself not realized her deep lost. She just feels unhappy and behave strangely from before, then all her surroundings are suprising, wondering why she has been changing. Then you wrote this story to us.
And of course, she may enter into deadlock and does not want to adpate the changes even we understand her lost. Then we need giving her time until she build new life target, and final result is just God knows.
So that is why there are so many life shows in our world. People behave differently while facing the same problem. The surrounding beloved ones can help, but see how long beloved ones can insist, and herself can recover.
You are right, this is your own idea. And 武梅 believed so before, so she was happy. And maybe something tricked her and made her believe changed, and she becomes so weired.
雪花漂飘 发表评论于
回复绿一的评论:
Thank you for your open mind. You are very nice and sensible, and you understood my point.My major point is: 武梅 needs help, not blaming though she is behaving strangely recently.
回复nanatao的评论:
Mrs.Santa站在自认为公正的角度来批评绿一，有没有想到其实不偏激的是你自己呢？你所说的一切都建立在你自己的假设上。仅仅是一个读过MBA的女人，你就认为如果不在家带孩子，就能成为赚钱的顶级高手，这也未免太搞笑了。
上班的压力，尤其是做到高层，绝对要比家庭主妇所承担的要大得多。现在很不理解的就是武梅认为自己所谓的牺牲。照顾自己生的孩子为什么要说成是牺牲呢？每天和孩子在一起，参与他们的成长，这其中的幸福难道不比赚钱得来的要大得多吗？凭着自己的心血将孩子培养成一个有用的人，这样的成就难道不比任何一个工作所得来的要大很多吗？武梅的公婆每个月也给她5月数字的进帐啊.b如果武梅真的出去工作了又不知还有什么怨言呢？这种人就是生在福中不知福的那种。
========================================================
You should talk to fathers about your theory, I wish you can convince more and more men become stay-home daddies.When that trend begins, Green-One may not criticize Wu-Mei to demand half family assets for the divorce. Because she always fight for man's privileges.
================================================================
the Keyword is道德规范,
when you批评一个女人做事不合适， whose moral stand do you use?
I think you two use男尊女卑，三从四德 as moral stand to criticize Wu-Mei.
According today's commercial era moral stand to judge Wu-Mei,
I think Wu-Mei is not bad person at all, although I don't agree with her
demand for her in-law's assets.
"针对你对我的回帖，再说几句，以后我不会再回你的贴。
第一，你一定要说武梅留在家里做全职妈妈是被胁迫或诱骗，从绿一的文章和回帖
来看，这显然是颠倒黑白，这才是“猪八戒倒打一耙”
========================================================
From Green-One description, Did her husband offer to stay home with kids
to free her to work outside without any worries? NO, NO, NO!!!!
she had no-choice but to stay home for the sake of their kids' HAPPINESS.
Baby-sitter from outside is not choice, outsider Babysitting is desperation.
"第二，对于高学历高智商的人来说，带孩子比赚钱更苦，有这个可能。但是请注意
武梅从来没吃过这个苦。她一直有保姆照料家中琐事，她还有公婆每月给很多生活
津贴。我身边事业家庭兼顾的女性朋友，没有丈夫在家不工作的，你说的这种情况
少之又少。而且她们的公婆也没有武梅的公婆那么大方有钱。武梅的条件跟她们比
不知好多少，绝对没有理由说她无法出去工作。她只要想，肯定有办法，而且解决
办法肯定不难。"
==========================================================
Here comes again, Why don't you dare to compare Wu-Mei with the man her
husband?
She was a lucky woman ,but she is not as lucky as her husband, because she
was restrained by the duty of their kids' happiness.Meanwhile Her husband
was free with this duty.
"第三，她可成为顶级赚钱高手的可能，这只是一种可能。这个世界上什么都有可能，
但不能以此作为谈判的基础，否则简直就是敲诈勒索。这么说吧，且不说她的智力
和个性，也不说作为中国人的语言和文化障碍，光从几率来说，她成不了赚钱高手
的可能性比成为赚钱高手的可能性大得多。那么多MBA毕业生，有几个成为你说的顶
级高手，这几个幸运儿中又有几个是中国人？你自己算算概率吧。"
=========================================================
yes, Everything is possible. but small probability event is called miracle.
Woman without duty of kid's happiness does as good as man, which is not
miracle. for example Oprah, Martha Steward,
Meg Whiteman. Behind every successful career woman with kids, there is good househusband.thtat's why Amercian family court reward half of family income to the stay-home spouse.
===============================================================
Why do you insist to compare Wu-Mei with other women to feel lucky? Are
you dare to let Wu-Mei compare her husband the man?
Compare her husband the man, Wu-Mei is unfortunate person .and her misfortune
was 50% caused by her husband the man. Of course she should get compensation
from her husband.
By the way, Don't you think there're too much her in-laws in her life?
No wonder she want to get divorced, because this is the only way to avoid
her in-laws.
雪花漂飘 发表评论于
I understand you guys blamed her. It is really truely bad behaviour. Please 绿一 try say some similiar words of my comments to her and see what is her reaction if you want try.
雪花漂飘 发表评论于
全家人的关爱!=self-achievement,self-confidence, indepence and social position as most of us have.
I admire that her behaviour is not normal, overreacted. She needs professional help, not just blaming.
雪花漂飘 发表评论于
回复toobusy的评论:
Yes, I said that her words to 公婆 are not proper, overreacted. But her feeling of lost and regretting of being only home especially own decision make her reaction strangely. So this needs psycologist's help, like Dr. Phil, not just critisize her by us. This does not solve her problem.
And also she was very nice woman as she felt well. And now she felt lost as she does not have life target.
I believe that 武梅 is still nice woman, and she will come back to normal life after some period if her husband understands her lost and helps her to rebuild life target, but not just giving money.
雪花漂飘 发表评论于
We have to understand here: we are living not just only for money, also self-achievement,self-confidence and indepence social position. And now 武梅 only has money. she feels lost as she does not have self-achievement,self-confidence and indepence social position. Of course, as we said it was her own decision, but not so wise. We should understand her, not blame her anymore.
Of course, her reaction because of own unwise decision and lost is too strong. she should eat this bitter fruit, and restarts her career.
雪花漂飘 发表评论于
On the other hand, I admired that she should not say too much bad words to 公婆.
If you say to 武梅 that we understand her lost, decision is made, and 20 years is big lost really without career. But we cannot change anymore. Maybe 武梅 will feel better.
At least I will feel better and ok.
雪花漂飘 发表评论于
Sorry, 绿一, I did not see this "而且现在虽然闹成这样了，每个月的钱，还是1分不少的放进她的户头里。不是怕她，而是讲理性。越是在这样的时候，就越不能亏待她。" before I added my comments.
And still we should understand her lost of feeling even she has a lot of money. She lost the target of living after children to university.
雪花漂飘 发表评论于
Sorry:
family members should NOT just only say: it is your own decision. Family member should understand her lost.
雪花漂飘 发表评论于
绿一,I have read all comments, and Mrs. Santa's comments are different, but consider from 武梅 side. We should not only blame 武梅 though she made not-so-wise dicision herself earlier.
1. Do 公婆 still give money to her now after children to unversity? I suppose no, so 武梅 feels lost. 公婆 giving her money before let 武梅 having a wrong impression that she can be @home in whole life with this payment. 武梅 was just not so wise to realize this earlier that children will be independen in about 20 years, still she needs being indepent in the rest of your life, so now the situation becomes so clear,she is so regereting to realize this. If we say she should be responsible for this not so wise decision is rational, but not so fair to 武梅.
I think if the family say to 武梅 appreciate her work in last 20 years, and it is really a pity for her career, then she will feel much better, and not fight for the property.
2. And this 20 years is really so important in the whole life of a person. whether or not 公婆's money = 武梅's 20 years' career is not possible to answer now. We have to admire that 武梅's 20 years cannot be back, money can be paied back easily, of course it is her own decision, but sometime decision is not so wise while you were young, family members should just only say: it is your own decision. Family member should understand her lost.
I believe that 武梅 will feel better and restart her career if family is not just blame her and admire her 20 years of young is really invaluable.
Why I am saying this here is my own life expereience: I am not so unwise as 武梅, and I am still having my career, I did not select being home. However, I have sacrificed my time and energy to support my husband, but he is not appreciate that much, and just say, it was my own decision. I feel very lost, and now I would not support him that much anymore. Of course, family will be in trouble in this situation. And some husband even requires divorcing after wife supported in hard time.
So 武梅's alttitude is not so right, but her lost is understandable. She and her husband really should go to see phycologist, but not just blaming her, not so fair.
Talking about MBA making big bucks I did know a woman (Chinese) who had an MBA degree and had not worked a single day. My impression was that she was not even smart. There was no logic in whatever she was trying to say. I really wondered who would hire her as a manager of any sort. I don't believe that MBA automatically means big bucks and professional success.
1800900 发表评论于
回复绿一的评论:
Sorry. I probably 想太多了, as nanatao said :-)
Probably the 公婆 interfered in their son's marriage a little too much, so that the woman ended up not feeling that it's her own life she had lived but the man's (or his family's).
nanatao 发表评论于
“Why did 武梅的公婆每个月给她5位数的补贴 to take care of her own children? It's her marriage, her family, her children. Why did her 公婆 need to pay her for that?“
你是不是想的太多了，这就像在国内很多条件好的公婆会给儿子儿媳补贴一样，希望他们生活得好一些而已。武梅生的孩子也是她自己的，不是公婆强迫她生的呀。有时候看来不能做好事，如果公婆不给钱反而不会印来这样的揣测了。
1800900 发表评论于
回复绿一的评论:
Why did 武梅的公婆每个月给她5位数的补贴 to take care of her own children? It's her marriage, her family, her children. Why did her 公婆 need to pay her for that?
It sounds for me like that the man's family (the 公婆 and the man) bought the woman to produce children for the family.
Also it sounds like that the woman was married more to the 公婆 than to her husband.
回复1800900的评论:
As matter of facts, I should make comments to her old bunch of stories. Every story of hers was to stand in the ancient Chinese man's shoes to criticize woman. I just can't stand she constantly spread her female-inferiority opinion all over to poison the public forum.
1800900 发表评论于
Mrs.Santa:
Honestly I think you kind of overreact a little too much.
The question is how many % of total family assets the 40 million bucks equates. After 10 years marriage, the housewife or househusband entitled half of family assets no matter what.
First it sounds unbelievable, but there are so many rediculous people in the world. Several weeks ago, I heard the news from CNN that one divorced woman claimed the 40 million she got from her several-year marriage was too little to keep her normal life going. She signed the pre-nup before the marriage.
