回复pach的评论:
You left nothing for me to say. I hate you! haha!
pach 发表评论于
回复Processor的评论:
I very much agree with what you've said and your logic, conclusion etc. I think the problem is that many Chinese do not understand that medicine is really an art, it is not pure science. It needs an all around education to deal first with the disease, then the patient, family etc. Humanity is an huge issue in medicine - not just skill. How to satisfy patients/family's emotional needs; and the ability to make them understand the disease itself, so to help them make an educated decision about their own health. Note: the decision is not made purely by the doctor(doctors assume a position of a powerful helper, not God in western medicine). It is difficult to achieve those smoothly if the doctor him or herself is not a well-rounded person. I think that is the fundamental reason a 4-yr college is preceded by medical school. Those education builds on a person; the effect is not something you can quantify easily.
To make it easier to understand: If a doctor, regardless of his or her good intention or kindness, has bad personal skill, does not talk pleasantly to patient and family , eg. does not bother to explain or is not good at explaining the reason and logic for his/her decision, but he or she is really good at the medical knowledge and he/she makes the right diagnosis and right treatment decisions for the patient, this doctor would still be considered a wonderful or even magical doctor by many Chinese, especially those at home; but this doctor would not be considered a good doctor by near 100% Americans; they will not want to chose him/her regardless how brilliant he/she is skillwise - go figure the reason and culture background in this.
I am very impressed with many US-trained doctors who are wonderful human beings, their patience and care to patients/people in need, and who are extremely smart and good at what they do. I believe that they are the true driving force for modern western medicine, which is constantly advancing; while most ordinary doctors, take the ride. So most doctors are reasonable doctors.
In the US, medicine is about standard care. It is not about "the best" and most of the time, there is no best as every situation/patient is different! Even if they have the same disease, their needs and background health are different.
回复linna118的评论:
Now we are onto medical malpractice.....stay tuned!
Of course, since medical malpractice is so much higher here, the quality of the doctors must be much worse!
By the same logic, since the U.S. and China have roughly the same life expectancy, the medicine in the U.S. must be really bad comparing to that in China. Remember that famous logic?
回复Processor的评论:
I think it really should be researched . Why the malpractice insurances are so high? Because too many bad doctors make too many stupid mistakes. Wish i could do the research!!
Processor 发表评论于
回复linna118的评论:
I am asking research statistics not patient information.
lgy0724 发表评论于
totally agree with what riverside said since my husband is MDlPHD in USA for twenties years as well as a doctor for seven years in China.
linna118 发表评论于
回复Processor的评论:
You know that would be a HIPAA violation if you provide you the sources.
Processor 发表评论于
回复linna118的评论:
Yes, they would have statistical meanings when they happen often. To support your claim, please show your data and your source.
linna118 发表评论于
回复Processor的评论:
"Your examples have no statistical meanings,"" I would say: If those stupid things happen too often, they should have some statistical meanings. Forgive me to use the word "STUPID". Some really are!!
Processor 发表评论于
回复linna118的评论:
Please do not change the topic, brother.
We are not here talking about like or dislike Chinese doctors. We are comparing the quality of China trained doctors and U.S. trained doctors. If you really want to know, I love Chinese trained doctors, especially young females. ;-)
Your examples have no statistical meanings, if you want to know.
linna118 发表评论于
回复Processor的评论:
Are you the second generation of Chinese or you are an American? Can't believe you dislike Chinese doctors so much. Speak with a Chinese Doctor is "speak with a robot "? you don't sound like educated well enough if you are a physician too. Read all the examples i gave below, they were all true stories of American Physicians who completed the superwell education you mentioned. Some of them even didn't know how to talk to their co-workers like a humanbeing!!
Processor 发表评论于
“People can't compare the first generation of Chinese doctors to American doctors.”
----But isn't that everyone including youself exactly doing? If not, what the hell we've been doing the whole day?
"They grew up in China, got education in China. They can be doctor here already very successful."
---So in your conclusion, because they are already very successful, they are automatically much better than their US counterpart? So one should be disappointed in the quality of the U.S. physicians?
"If they had the same backgroud as most American Doctors, most of them would be more successful than Americans. "
---Which implies that they do not have the same background as most American doctors, right? But nevertheless, they are still way better because they are supermen? If so, why the hell would they want to have the same background as most stupid American doctors in the first place! Does it stand to reason that everyone would be more successful if he/she had the same background as most American doctors? Furthermore, is it valid to say a monkey would be more successful if the monkey had the same background? We agree that background including educational background accounts for the quality of the doctors. If background gets equalized, the whole argument becomes a moot point.
"They can't get in most of the good specialty fields is becaause of the language barrier and the discremination."
---You think language barriers and discrimination are the only reasons? What about overall intellectual levels due to different selectivity during medical school admissions? What about the extensive liberal arts and humanity education the US medical students have to experience? Would a broad undergraduate education play a positive role in forming a person's world view and in sharpening his problem solving skills? Would you, as a patient, rather talk to a well educated human being or speak with a robot that shows no humanity?
"Those good specialtied are all controlled by Americans."
---THANK GOD! If these good specialties were all controlled by the Chinese, I would have to immigrate to another country, again!
linna118 发表评论于
回复riverside的评论:
Very good way to look at the situation. Generally speaking, USA is a pretty fair country, it gives hardworking people good chance to survive!! We really should appreciate. I left China because i didn't feel very fair there, but when i am here, if people say bad things about China, i don't like it, try to fight back to protect my motherland. Humanbeing's feeling is so complicated!!!
TNEGI//ETNI 发表评论于
凑个热闹。顺便说一句:楼主你实在太幸运了,当然,你也付出了艰苦的努力。
redlight08 评论TNEGI//ETNI 于:2012-07-23 09:28:44:
stupid article, even don't know how about the education in US medical school, come on!! US medical school students are come from the best one who graduated from college, not high school.
Support Mr. Fang!!!
TNEGI//ETNI 回复redlight08的评论于:2012-07-23 10:10:00:
You must be stupid if you got your degree of "medical doctor" from a medical college in USA since you paid too much money and too much time. But a foreign medical bachelor, like of England, France, German, Russia, China, India, etc., can do the same job in USA, and he or she just paid much much less than what you paid for. You are challenged by them, and you will never win since you earn the same mony as they earn.
riverside 发表评论于
回复linna118的评论:
“People can't compare the first generation of Chinese doctors to American doctors. They grew up in China, got education in China. They can be doctor here already very successful. If they had the same backgroud as most American Doctors, most of them would be more successful than Americans. They can't get in most of the good specialty fields is becaause of the language barrier and the discremination. Those good specialtied are all controlled by Americans.”
I agree with what you just said. The way I see it, it is just a fair game: those American Medical School Graduates spends $50-60K per year for their medical education. If they do not have some advantage over the FMGs, who is going to attend these medical schools? We are just blessed that the American Medical System can give us some opportunity if we work hard enough.
linna118 发表评论于
People can't compare the first generation of Chinese doctors to American doctors. They grew up in China, got education in China. They can be doctor here already very successful. If they had the same backgroud as most American Doctors, most of them would be more successful than Americans. They can't get in most of the good specialty fields is becaause of the language barrier and the discremination. Those good specialtied are all controlled by Americans.
回复Processor的评论:
You the funnest.
Family practice is among the lowest paid medical specialty.
Most of them went into Pathology because it is the only specialty they can get in.
Just saying...
linna118 发表评论于
回复riverside的评论: Riverside :
You can't tell that Processor was using a sarcastic way to argue with me?
Should understand his comment in an opposite way!
riverside 发表评论于
回复飘侠的评论:
谢谢鼓励。
给你讲一个笑话吧。若干年前,我实验室的老板发牢骚,说是她的Teenager儿子对她不服气,觉得自己聪明,Mom is so dumb。她觉得凭什么说我Dumb,就跟儿子说:“At Least your mom has a PhD”。当时我女儿也是Teenager,有时候对父母不服气,我心里就想,我可以跟女儿说,至少你父母都是MD/PhD,你好歹弄个学士学位再来叫板。当然,这话没有说给老板听,因为人家那个PhD含金量高,我们这个相当于美国的MD/PhD的学位在当时还不如人家一个美国PhD好使。
That's why the world goes to China to seek medical treatments and that's also why China trained doctors have the highest reputation in the medical profession in the world. If you don't believe this, just attend any medical conferences in the world. You will see how much doctors from the rest of the world respects his/her colleagues from China.
When I was little, I watched documentaries showing Chinese doctors working in Africa. The Chinese were, are and will be the best. This is supported by the fact that they always work in the highest paid specialties such as pathology and family medicine in the U.S.
I also read in the news many times that whenever a U.S. president got sick, he always fly Chinese doctors in since he is deeply disappointed at U.S. physicians and the U.S. medical profession in general.
After worked at more than 15 hospitals nationwide in USA,i am deeply disappointed at American physicians and the qaulity of the medical field here. I am even afraid of that one day i get sick and have to be under their treatment. Scary!! Although i have a few very close US Doctor friends.
是吗?让我来证明你的论断!!例1:第三年的美国内科住院医,was putting a PICC line , when he finished and going to leave, the nurse found out that the picc line was not sutured to skin, could get off anytime. Told him that should be attached to the skin, then he really tied that picc line to the side without suture it!!Nurse had to say" Hey, you might need suture it!!!"
例二: Interventional radiologist: Came to do a paracentisis, used the ultrasound probe scanning the ICU patients abdomen, finally found an cystic area right at the middle of epigastric area, said " well, guess this is the area we can get some fluid." Then looked at me to get my opinion, i said " in My Opinion, it is the stomach!!" He was like : " Do you know i am a Doctor?" I said "of Course" . He knew he was wrong and Left !! What an Idiot!!
例三:attending of OB/GYN came do amniocentesis. Five times punch the needle into amnio cavity without getting any fluid. Why, the needle was perpendicular to the ultrasound beams. Thanks God, hope the fetal eyes were not poked 5 times!!
例五: Attending of Radiologist; A 75 yrs old woman ultrasound found a 2.5 cm cyst in left ovary. Radiologist report: Left ovarian dominant follicle!!
Do you think it is enough to prove the American Doctors much better than Chinese ones? If not, i have more!!
By the way, internal medicine physicians most are really not very smart!!!They can be very annoying!!
I have four-year the same education as that of "医学临床专业", which includes a 4-month clinical pratics Internal Medicine, Infectious Diseases and Pediatrics in a hospital.