上世纪七十年代的时候,有个加拿大人叫Monty Hall。 他跑到美国发展,主持了一档流行电视节目,叫做《一言为定》(let’s make a deal). 在镜头前,Monty 让你注意面对的三个门,你被告知这三个门后中的一个的柜子里有一万美金, 这在当时算是一笔相当不错的财富了。而另两个门后只是放有一些微不足道的东西,比如说一根香蕉之类的。游戏开始时,你可以选中一个门,如果选择正确的话,那门后边的钱就归你所有了。与此同时,你也知道,台上主持节目的Monty是能看到这三个门后面的真实情况的。
回复 'nightrider' 的评论 :回复 'nightrider' 的评论 :
I made some small changes to my original reply to you several days ago, mainly added a paragraph talking about ancient chniese wisdom. The following is the updated version of that.
越吃越蒙山人
2018-11-08 18:42:03
回复 'nightrider' 的评论 :
Although all of the writings I put here in my blog are not academic essays , to those meticulous and serious attitude people, I still don’t mind to talk a bit more about the construction rational and supporting argument behind.
At least one thing you said here should be right, definitely I am not an expert in neither math nor logic, none of them. However another thing you zoomed in and talked for quite a while was totally wrong. The unicorn metaphor I used in the article was not to reveal a double entendre hidden there, but was trying to explain a concept that without the so called prior knowledge, a machine can produce wrong judgement.
Is Aristotelian logic flawless? Of course not. In the 17th century, Leibniz expanded the syllogism formats from 19 to 24. But still it’s not perfect. Then George Boole spent a lot of time thinking about the Aristotelian premise sets, eventually he found a mistake there originated by Aristotle , or a defect neglected by Aristotle.. Boole attempted to tell us that, the universal statements "all S is P" and "no S is P" (contraries in the traditional Aristotelian schema) are compossible provided that the set of "S" is the empty set. "All S is P" is construed to mean that "there is nothing that is both S and not-P"; "no S is P", that "there is nothing that is both S and P". Similarly, the subcontrary relationship is dissolved between the existential statements "some S is P" and "some S is not P". The former is interpreted as "there is some S such that S is P" and the latter, "there is some S such that S is not P", both of which are clearly false where S is nonexistent.
Therefore in my article , I used the unicorn contradiction to explain this . When I say , 1. an unicorn is a horn animal and 2. no horn animal is an unicorn, the both statements are correct from the pure logic point of view, but the Unicorn set is nonexistent. We know this , because we are human we have prior knowledge or common sense ( you should like this term). Computer does not, therefore it goes to contradiction.
Of course I understand that the modern computer design was not simply based on the classic logic. But I still talked about this unicorn metaphor, my intention was to indicate that there ’s a defect in Aristotelian system . You see what I mean? That is the foundation of modern science, the foundation of modern mathematics, no matter how complicated those all are about.
Can the modern math describe or cover all the details of human life, all the universal layers, all the changes happening everywhere? A bunch of top minds living in the world don’t think so. You can check with Wiki about the alien thoughts and ideas of the guys like Mandelbrot, Conway, especially Wolfram. This is why I said , at the current stage, computer can not understand human intuition, can not understand human culture , can not understand conscientious principles etc.
I had an article talking about my understanding of Wolfram’s thought, you can click the link below to have a look then pour out your scorning thereafter.:)
To finish this back and forth discussion or rebuttal debate , I feel compulsively to present you a saying from 《荀子》here : 所谓士者,虽不能尽术,必有率也。I believe you are too young to understand this kind of oriental ancient wisdom. To the people in my age , intellectual means we don’t care about those sophisticated theoretic specifications that much as you do, we are more fascinated in the methodology and philosophy thinking of the universal truth instead.
By the way, forget about that Bayesian thing, I just wanted to make up a fortune telling joke, make fun of politics, not serious about it.
越吃越蒙山人 发表评论于
回复 'nightrider' 的评论 : one more thing, does a name, Keith Delvin ring a bell to you? His book energized a lot to my thinking for this.
越吃越蒙山人 发表评论于
回复 'nightrider' 的评论 :
Although all of the writings I put here in my blog are not academic essays , to those meticulous and serious attitude people, I still don’t mind to talk a bit more about the construction rational and supporting argument behind.
At least one thing you said here should be right, definitely I am not an expert in neither math nor logic, none of them. However another thing you zoomed in and talked for quite a while was totally wrong. The unicorn metaphor I used in the article was not to reveal a double entendre hidden there, but was trying to explain a concept that without the so called prior knowledge, a machine can produce wrong judgement.
Is Aristotelian logic flawless? Of course not. In 17th century, Leibniz expanded the syllogism formats from 19 to 24. But still it’s not perfect. Then George Boole spent a lot of time thinking about the Aristotelian premise sets, eventually he found a mistake there originated by Aristotle , or a defect neglected by Aristotle.. Boole attempted to tell us that, the universal statements "all S is P" and "no S is P" (contraries in the traditional Aristotelian schema) are compossible provided that the set of "S" is the empty set. "All S is P" is construed to mean that "there is nothing that is both S and not-P"; "no S is P", that "there is nothing that is both S and P". Similarly, the subcontrary relationship is dissolved between the existential statements "some S is P" and "some S is not P". The former is interpreted as "there is some S such that S is P" and the latter, "there is some S such that S is not P", both of which are clearly false where S is nonexistent.
Therefore in my article , I used the unicorn contradiction to explain this . When I say , 1. a unicorn is a horn animal and 2. no horn animal is a unicorn, the both statements are correct from the pure logic point of view, but the Unicorn set is empty. We know this , because we are human we have prior knowledge or common sense ( you should like this term). Computer does not, therefore it goes to contradiction.
Of course I understand that the modern computer design was not simply based on the classic logic. But I still talked about this unicorn metaphor, my intention was to indicate that there ’s defect in Aristotelian system . You see what I mean? That is the foundation of modern science, the foundation of modern mathematics, no matter how complicated those all are about.
Can the modern math describe or cover all the details of human life, all the universal layers, all the changes happening everywhere? A bunch of top minds living in the world don’t think so. You can check with Wiki about the alien thoughts and ideas of the guy like Mandelbrot, Conway, especially Wolfram. This is why I said , at the current stage, computer can not understand human intuition, can not understand human culture , can not understand conscientious principles etc.
I had an article talking about my understanding of Wolfram’s thought, you can click the link below to have a look then pour out your scorning thereafter.:)
by the way, forget about that Bayesian thing, I just wanted to make up a fortune telling joke, make fun of politics, not serious about it.
nightrider 发表评论于
By the way, the martingale (doubling the stake) betting strategy is a horrible one as you do not have infinite endowment. Check out the fractional Kelly criterion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_criterion.
nightrider 发表评论于
Thank you for your compliment.
Excuse my bluntness and with all due respect, I would like to point out that as regard to logical deduction, you are again confusing distinct notions. Of course a logical syllogism with every symbol mathematically rigorously defined, could lead to a contradiction. That is inherent in and an indispensable and integral part of the logic. The canonical and actually form of the contradiction is (A and not A). It is always false. Without it there is no way to deduce whether a proposition or a logical deduction is false. But a true contradiction is NOT attained when the symbols are NOT rigorously defined.
There are indeed true logical paradoxes. There is also the Godel's incompleteness theorem. But that is NOT what you are talking about here. So please do not confuse the notions.
Your example of the unicorn is a quintessential example of confusion of concepts. If you do want to study double entendre, you are using the wrong tool. There is no inherent flaws in using pure logic to analyze double entendre. Any flaw comes from you not using the right logical/mathematical expression. To put it more bluntly, you can not blame the mathematics for you writing down 1+2=-1. The blame is squarely on your erroneous usage of mathematics, not mathematics per se.
You can use Bayesian probability to study and draw conclusions for many things. You have to pick the prior and the model. Different prior and models will lead to different conclusions. Why is that any surprise? That is the very reason you and your wife fight. That is the reason you can not read a letter in Icelandic, because your prior knowledge base does not contain Icelandic. How are you different from a computer in this regard? How does not prove mathematical logic is less effective than human instinct?
There are legitimate contemplations over the relationship between languages and mathematics/logic and over the artificial intelligence. Unfortunately, judging from what you have written here, most, if and maybe not all, of your puzzlements stem from a confusing understanding of and loose grasp of mathematics and logic.
越吃越蒙山人 发表评论于
回复 'nightrider' 的评论 :hehe, you are a smart guy, this time I agree with you on the most part of your writings here.
As to the paradox, that was not because I'd not defined about the meaning of the words clearly .
Actually, that was a piece of puzzlement we inherited since the age of Aristotle . however, that puzzlement also brought up some hints to the philosophers and logicians in the old times. So now we understand that, in pure logic theory/concept, even with the correct premises ,the syllogism deduction can go contradiction. the reason we, the human, can make it right is because we don't use absolute premises. Our prior knowledge contaminated the pureness of the premises already, in the most of the cases.
thanks for sharing your comment.
nightrider 发表评论于
Much of your puzzlement comes from confusing distinct notions of mathematics (including logic). For example, the Monty Hall problem is a very simple and straightforward exercise of the calculation of the ultimate probability from the (conditional) probabilities. For your roulette problem, you having assumed the independence of each throw, should realize that conditioning on having observed the ball landing on red consecutively n times still gives the probability of the ball landing on blue 1/2. 1/2^n is only the probability of observing consecutive red (or for that matter any combination) in the NEXT n throws.
As for your logic "paradox", it comes about only because you have not clearly defined the meaning of each word. Of course, people speak double entendre. It can also be interpreted logically. Understanding a double entendre is not unlike cryptography trying to decode an encrypted message sent through a noisy channel. The efficiency of decryption depends on the computational capacity, prior knowledge and your algorithm for decoding "long distance" dependency (for example, the long short memory neural network is a fashionable algorithm for doing that). Even humans would be at a loss to understand certain jokes. Just remind yourself the numerous occasions you scratched your head and wondered what the native speakers were laughing about, and when you blanked at the sports metaphor they throw at you. Are you any different from the computer?