主讲Tom Hafer先生，电子工程师，开发了用于拦截火箭和无人机的系统。毕业于麻省理工学院。
Mr. Tom Hafer was trained as an electrical engineer and developed systems for neutralizing rockets and drones. MIT '70
中英对照字幕：
陌上美國的朋友們好！今天請老朋友Tom Hafer先生，就選舉誠信問題對話。下午好，Hafer先生。
Hello, Moshang viewers! Welcome back. Today we invite our good friend Mr. Tom Hafer having a conversation with me about the topic of election Integrity. Good afternoon, Mr Hefer.
你好劉博士，最近好嗎？
Hello, Dr. Liu How are you?
很高興再次見到您來我的節目。
Great, it's very nice to see you again.
好的，今天講選舉誠信話題。我會提出一個解決方案。問題根源在於，選舉投票系統跟19世紀一樣古老，1800年至今沒有升級多少。
Right, well today we're going to talk a little bit about election integrity and then I will propose a solution to some of the problems. The problem right now stem from the fact that we essentially have a 19th century election. And voting system not really that much has changed since the 1800s.
第一個嚴肅問題，人們說到選舉盗窃/舞弊，指的是什麼？
So first the larger question, when people talk about stealing an election, what do they mean?
媒體總是把重點放在“選票造假”，其實他們只是避重就輕選了不常見問題。選舉盜竊涉及的問題大得多。
The media always focuses on ballot fraud, because that's kind of the least common problem. But daily election actually can consist of much more than that.
選票造假是可能問題之一，我們今天會提；最後關頭改選舉法也完全可以帶來嚴重問題，特別是走違規越權的方式。
選舉法本來是由立法機構來制定，結果2020年大選出現很多最後關頭改法律。而且成了司法機關越權，而不是走立法機構。造成法律上的失職，但高院也沒受理。高院選擇了不審理相關案子。
Ballot fraud can be a problem and that's what we're going to talk about today, but they also mean last minute changes to the voting laws, especially by unauthorized bodies. It's the legislatures that determine the voting laws, and yet in the 2020 election there were a lot of last minute changes to the laws and changes made by the Judiciary rather than the legislature, which are in legal limbo. The Supreme Court was asked to rule on it, but they did not. They punted.
另一大問題就是故意遏止投票和假信息。很明顯的例子就是來自，媒體聯手製造了選舉干擾。明顯例子就是，爆料拜登兒子亨特電腦門，2020年大選前卻被封殺。
And then of course the other thing is deliberate misinformation or suppression. The most obvious example of that, being the suppression coordinated amongst many of the major media sources. For example, the hunter Biden laptop story just before the 2020 election.
不過今天我們重點會講選票造假，大規模選票造假一般不常見，但並非沒有發生過 這有個例子。該給出的就是個歷史上出名的例子。
But today we're going to focus on ballot fraud. And the first thing that I'll say is that, generally large-scale ballot fraud is not common, but it does occur. And I've put a link here that references a story in the Heritage organization about a significant case of ballot fraud.
那麼選票造假是怎麼發生的？我們可以就此做什麼改變？
So how can valid fraud occur? What are the things that we could do to address that?
首先我們需要選民提供ID，而在很多州只要求提供水電費帳單，上面顯示名字和地址就過關了。但是，這樣很容易用死人信息來造假選票，這樣就查不出，多荒謬。
Well, for start, we need voter ID. So right now, many states you can just bring in an electric bill with your name and address on it. Well, anybody with a computer can forge an electric bill for a dead person, and go in and be identified as that person. So that's ridiculous.
不能有選舉日當天才註冊的政策。我舉個例子 如果某個大黨在某州發現，隔壁州的選舉法寬鬆很多，那麼該黨可以讓自己的支持者跑到隔壁州當天註冊。這個黨可以提出理由，謊稱這個選民住在某個公寓、有地址證明，這樣全套造假根本沒有壓力。弄個投票認同的地址，當天搬過去，還能次日搬走。
No same day voter registration. Well for example if a party determines that one state is definitely going to go their way but a neighboring state isn't, then they can just tell people to go over to the other state. And if they have a residence that somebody in the party has arranged, then they can say okay your whole hundred of you are going to live in this apartment, give them this address and there's virtually no way to stop that. You've got a valid address, you've moved to the state, and then the next day you can move back.
提前投票規則也改了，製造很多問題。之前只讓週二選舉日投票卻是帶來不便，尤其不利於要上班的人，需要等到當天下班這樣才能去排長隊投票，非常麻煩。於是有人提出選舉日前的週末週一都能投票。
結果提前投票改成早6週甚至8周，這造成不好應付的各種意外，比如候選人去世。如果人們投過票了，這非常糟糕。這都不是假設而是2022年選舉發生了的事。賓州州議員就有選出了死人。
是的，糟糕透頂，中國就此有很多誇大攻擊。攻擊說美國選舉、系統下地獄了，都選出死人。
呵，這意味著這些人，在特別選舉前他們就失去對應民選官員代表了。當然是個很糟糕的事情。
Early voting is an issue. It was started because voting only on the Tuesday of election day was very difficult for some people. And especially if they had to work they might have to wait until after work, and then stand in long long lines very inconvenient. So they said well, let's make it more convenient. Let's vote on the weekend and the Monday before election day. Well now early voting is six even eight weeks ahead of time. And Things Can Happen things can change. For example, candidates can die, and if people have already voted that's too bad. And you may think that this is a hypothetical case, but it isn't. That happened in the 2022 election. There was a fellow from Pennsylvania... Pennsylvania representative right. It's very bad I already saw a lot of propaganda in China, that they say American election American system is going to hell because they already elected a dead person. And so what that means is that those people until they can hold a special election for that seat, will have no representation. So that's a bad thing.
郵寄選票，需要至少出示一種ID。現在搪塞的理由就是會核對簽名，但是，這出錯率會很高，簽名總是會不同。
這樣核對簽名的機器算法設置自然需要非常粗糙，我觀察到佐治亞州2020加場選舉完全放棄了簽名核對。他們選擇不核查就直接相信就是來自本人的簽名。
Mail-in ballots. They need some form of positive ID. They claim that they're going to do signature matching but that's so difficult. If you sign your name a hundred times, it's going to look different a hundred ways. And so they have to have very loose algorithms for signature matching. And in fact, I believe that in Georgia in the runoff election (2020) they just gave up on it all together. And said well we're just going to trust that this is the right person's signature.
郵寄選票之前是要求選舉日當天寄到，這才是選舉日本身的意義，結果現在越改越晚。這製造了純粹的鬧劇，比如在加州，選舉日後好幾周都不能出結果，想想這要引發多少官司。
對，把選舉日數成了“選舉月”。
傷害了人們對系統的信任度，說的很對，我們要改變現狀。
Mail in ballots. It used to be that they had to arrive by election day because that's when the election was now. They're letting them go later and later and later which results in the complete mess that we have for example out in California where elections don't get called for weeks afterward and nobody knows who's been elected and how many lawsuits are going to come from that. I think they are still counting. Election Day becomes election month It just discourages people from trusting the system. You're exactly right and we need to do something about that.
選票投入箱 2020年之前很少有地方用，如果人拿到郵寄的選票，就用郵箱寄走；人人都方便，為什麼還要選票投票箱。那麼選票投放箱帶來的問題是什麼？
不同於郵箱有各種信件，投票箱只收選票。這就給干擾選舉的帶來很大可乘之機。給投票和塞假票的事都增加了風險。需要有監控器，我不知道為什麼要設置選舉投入箱。
Drop boxes. Before 2020 very few places even use drop boxes, and if you did a mail-in ballot, you mailed it in using a mailbox which is as far as I know available to everyone in the country. So why do we even need drop boxes and what's wrong with them? Well the problem with drop boxes is that unlike the mailbox, which has mail of all different kinds, drop boxes only have ballots so they make great targets if you are someone who wants to perpetrate a fraud either by stealing ballot or by stuffing ballot into drop boxes. So they at least need monitoring. And I'm not sure why we really need them at all.
選票收集，就是有人到處去收割選票。
收割那些自稱是合法投票的人的選票，但是其實很難查驗真假。可以發生去公寓或老人家，收集郵寄的選票。把可能還沒填的這種選票拿走，造假的自己填好，儂一套假信息，再加上簽名核對機制也缺乏。
這樣對於現有系統下完全合法的選票，輕鬆就能實現造假突破了。所以選票收割完全應該被廢除。
Ballot harvesting. That's where someone goes around and collects lots of ballots from people who they claim have voted legally. But you don't know that, they could go around to an apartment or an old folks home and they could take the mail-in ballots that the people have not yet filled out, take them fill them out themselves, forge a name onto it. And if the signature matching, requirements aren't there, then they can just take all of those ballots which are perfectly legal. Ballots which will be tracked by the system as being valid. And they can put whatever they want onto them. So ballot harvesting should not be allowed.
選民登記名冊。每次選舉後有人去世或者搬家，但是對選民名冊的更新卻嚴重延遲。
拿佛吉尼亞舉例，我兒子女兒上大學後就搬走了。之後每年我們都收到VA州里發來的選民登記要求，這些邀請根本不清楚人們搬走了這些細節，如果有人利用這種漏洞，就可以在VA投票。這種舞弊的作法還挺難被發現。
是的，尤其當今一派在用自己所有的權力便利，包括宣傳機器，媒體和自媒體，不斷信息轟炸；反復洗腦說美國出來希特勒要攻佔白宮，這可能刺激很多人覺得自己在做正確的事，就算非法投票還以為是救國，算不清有多少這種人。
你說得對，他們很自認為正義，覺得在拯救民主。實際上不是，他們在破壞民主。
Voter rolls. People die after each election, people move after each election, and yet the voter rolls rarely get updated. Here in Virginia for example, my son and daughter moved away from home when they went to college, and for years afterwards, we would get voter registration requests from the state of Virginia. Or these people because they didn't know that they had moved, they didn't know that they were voting elsewhere. So if they'd been willing to take the risk, they could have registered in Virginia and wherever else they lived, and it would have been very difficult to track down. Especially nowadays there is a one side use all their power, the propaganda machine or the media, social media to let people believe that, America had a Hitler is trying to take the White House. That could encourage a lot of people to think they are doing the right thing. So even they do some illegal voting, we cannot imagine how many people really fall into those kind of narratives and do something risk. No you're exactly right, they justify it because "They are saving democracy!" But they aren't, they're perverting it.
當下最好的操作就是現場去投票了。把紙質的選票用筆填寫好，投到選票機讀取結果。現在的情況是，有動態的選票計數和結果更新，同時把紙的選票保存收集到一個盒子裡，如果對選舉結果有質疑，那麼可以回頭審計，再計票一遍。電子讀取的結果和紙選票的結果應該一致。
還有我比較顧慮的事就是發生在補選中，GA 2020年參議員2席的增加選舉，到2021年1月5日才舉行這個加場選舉，大選和加場選舉間冒出來很多新的註冊選民。人多到足夠讓2個民主黨參議員勝選。本來至少一個在11月大選中根本就沒贏。我們如何知道這些新註冊的人都是GA選民？他們大選已經投過票，又可以到12月6日前都再去GA註冊。
想想一車車學生被給一個臨時公寓地址，在GA當天投個票，第二天還能回自己住的州；根本就不會被追責，這需要改變。
這些切入點都非常棒，很喜歡。不過選舉是州權，各自決定自己的選舉法。難的在於改革法律系統修復選舉誠信。
我有個改革方案，大家可能不喜歡，比較大膽。不過起碼可以提供一個參考討論選項，一個可能有些瘋狂餓建議。
So what's the best system currently? well the best system is in-person voting using a paper ballot that you mark with a pen or a marker, and then put into an electronic tabulation machine. So now you have constantly updated count of the ballots and the election results, but you also have a paper trail, so that if the results get challenged, you can go back and audit it. And there should be an exact match between the electronic records and the actual paper ballots. And then another one that I'm concerned about is runoff elections in Georgia in 2020. And the the runoff election for actually two Senate seats were not held until January 5th of 2021, and in between a number of new registrants came in, and registered. And that was sufficient to put both of the Democrats over the line, who had at least in one case not been the majority vote Gators in the original election. And the question is, how do we know that those new registrants were actually Georgia residents they already voted in the general election? And now they have until the 6th of December to register in Georgia. You could envision busloads of students being brought down, given common apartment addresses, and then being registered in the Georgia system. And then going out and voting, and then going home the next day. And there is nothing that they could have done about it, so that needs to be fixed. These are very good points. I like all of them. But because the election is more about the state. Each state decides the their election system. The hard part is to pass a new law to fix the broken election system. Well, let me propose something to you, and this is a radical suggestion, you may not like it, but I will put it on the table, so that it can be explored. So let me show you a radical suggestion, so my background...
英文完整版（含解决方案建议 11:10分开始）
https://rumble.com/v1yiyd1-election-integrity.html
请Tom Hafer先生来跟我们讲大选诚信、舞弊情况这些问题，至少省一事，不用怀疑他的背景动机是要搞烂美国。Tom叔家各代人都有守卫正义为美国贡献的历史，二战中还有家人为反法西斯和日本军国主义，建立奇功。
