羅蘭的這本書很厚，雖然很喜歡，只讀過兩遍，～30年前。
回答: 傅雷翻译《约翰·克里斯朵夫》个人哲学的融入 由 TJKCB 于 2025-04-12 21:50:05
這本書所寫的兒童的孤獨，以及後來獨立心靈部分，很真切，一些場景現在還記得。用個比喻來說，人間世像條河，約翰的軌跡從河底的混沌出發，到水面（俗世現實），然而沒有停留，直接插入天空。這本書可以與另一本書《無名的裘德》中的裘德的反复沉浮，對照著看。這兩本書，與那些現實中隨風逐浪的小說，是不同類的。與中國同一類人流觴曲水的境界也很不同。
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Superb metaphor: 人間世像條河，約翰的軌跡從河底的混沌出發，到水面（俗世現實），然而沒有停留，直接插入天空。my point was centered around "E.g.,一个人出生以后，在幼年的时候他被各种谎言所填满。当他觉醒的时候，当他成长起来的时候，他所做的第一件事就是呕吐，把这些谎言都呕吐出来，重新开始。" 傅雷翻译《约翰克里斯朵夫》put his own 个人哲学的融入, which was not by Romain Rolland in his novel Jean-Christophe (约翰克里斯朵夫).
His line got my attention:
In 1981, I returned to Fengmupo for vacation and gave this book to my father. My father has said many times over the decades that he should change his temper. Character is destiny, my second brother said. Now, I think that destiny fate is character: life is determined by fate. One ox, one yoke, my mother said. This yoke is also fate!
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Superb metaphor: 人間世像條河，約翰的軌跡從河底的混沌出發，到水面（俗世現實），然而沒有停留，直接插入天空。my point was centered around "E.g.,一个人出生以后，在幼年的时候他被各种谎言所填满。当他觉醒的时候，当他成长起来的时候，他所做的第一件事就是呕吐，把这些谎言都呕吐出来，重新开始。" 傅雷翻译《约翰克里斯朵夫》put his own 个人哲学的融入, which was not by Romain Rolland in his novel Jean-Christophe (约翰克里斯朵夫).
His line got my attention:
In 1981, I returned to Fengmupo for vacation and gave this book to my father. My father has said many times over the decades that he should change his temper. Character is destiny, my second brother said. Now, I think that destiny fate is character: life is determined by fate. One ox, one yoke, my mother said. This yoke is also fate!
傅雷翻译《约翰克里斯朵夫》个人哲学的融入
《约翰克里斯朵夫》在中文读者中产生了深远的影响。 他的译文成为中国文学界的重要作品，激励了无数读者追求真理与自我实现。
E.g.,一个人出生以后，在幼年的时候他被各种谎言所填满。当他觉醒的时候，当他成长起来的时候，他所做的第一件事就是呕吐，把这些谎言都呕吐出来，重新开始。
However, upon reviewing the original French text of Jean-Christophe, I was unable to locate a direct equivalent of this passage.This line, while rhetorically powerful in Chinese, does not exist verbatim in Rollands original French text. It appears to be a philosophical overreach by Fu Lei, shaped by his own disillusionment with social constructs and moral dogmas, possibly reflecting the broader intellectual atmosphere of post-war China.
Indeed, Fu Lei (傅雷) forced his own opinion onto the original Romain Rolland novel Jean-Christophe (约翰克里斯朵夫) to the extreme! My argument is that a newborn inherits good things to grow up well, such as virtues, kindness, compassion, honor, and integrity.
Rolland, in the original Jean-Christophe, was deeply humanistic. He depicted childhood as full of discovery, not inherent corruption. While he acknowledged societal pressures, he did not equate early life with being filled with lies that must be purged like poison. In contrast, Fu Lei, possibly influenced by Confucian moralism, existential angst, and perhaps personal frustrations with societal hypocrisy, amplified the novels critique of society into a more deterministic moral rejection suggesting a violent catharsis (vomiting lies) as a prerequisite for growth.
This is not just a translation choice; its a philosophical insertion. It risks distorting Rollands message, replacing gradual awakening and nuanced resistance with abrupt condemnation and ideological rebirth. In doing so, Fu Lei may have unwittingly projected a worldview where purity comes only after rupture, rather than Rollands gentler belief that truth is discovered through struggle, music, and compassion not through disgust and rejection alone.
In essence, Fu Lei did not just translate Jean-Christophe he transformed it into a moral fable of his own making, one that arguably veers from Rollands more empathetic, humanistic intention. For those who believe that children can inherit light, not just darkness, this matters greatly.
References:
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Jean-Christophe - Wikipedia
Jean-Christophe (1904?1912) is the novel in 10 volumes by Romain Rolland for which he received the Prix Femina in 1905 and the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1915. It was translated into English by Gilbert Cannan. The first four volumes are sometimes grouped as Jean-Christophe, the next three as Jean … See more
The central character, Jean-Christophe Krafft, is a Frеnch musician of German extraction, a composer of genius whose life is depicted from cradle to grave. He undergoes great hardships and spiritual struggles, balancing his pride in his own talents with the necessity of earning a living and taking care of those around him. Tormented by injustices against his friends, forced to flee on several occasions as a result of his brushes with authority and his own conscience, he finally finds peace in a remote corner of Switzerland before returning in triumph to Paris a decade later.
Although Rolland first conceived the work in Rome in the spring of 1890,
he began in earnest in 1903 after publishing a biography of Beethoven. A letter of 13 September 1902 reveals his plans:
My novel is the story of a life, from birth to death. My hero is a great German musician who is forced by circumstances to leave when he is 16-18 years old, living outside of Germany in Paris, Switzerland, etc. The setting is today's Europe [...] To spell it out, the hero is Beethoven in the modern world.
But in his preface to Dans la maison, published in 1909, Rolland denied that he was writing a novel in the traditional sense, but a "musical novel" in which emotions, not classical action, dictated the course of events. "When you see a man, do you ask yourself whether he is a novel or a poem? [...] Jean-Christophe has always seemed to me to flow like a river; I have said as much from the first pages." This coined the term roman-fleuve (river-novel), which has since been applied to other novel sequences in the same style.
Many individual tomes swerve from the story of Krafft to focus on the other characters. Rolland was an admirer of Leo Tolstoy, and, as in War and Peace, a very large proportion of the work is devoted to the author's thoughts on various subjects: music, art, literature, feminism, militarism, national character, and social changes in the Third Republic, largely attributed to Krafft, although Rolland denied that he shared many traits with his fictional composer. The didactic aspects of Jean-Christophe have been criticised by many readers. In his heavy use of matter-of-fact detail, Rolland followed the methods of naturalist predecessors with whom he otherwise had little in common.
Jean-Christophe public domain audiobook at LibriVox
Jean-Christophe, translated by Gilbert Cannan at Standard EbooksExternal links
[edit]Stefan Zweig, Romain Rolland The Man and His Work (Cedar Paul, translator), 1921 But in his preface to Dans la maison, published in 1909, Rolland denied that he was writing a novel in the traditional sense, but a "musical novel" in which emotions, not classical action, dictated the course of events. "When you see a man, do you ask yourself whether he is a novel or a poem? [...] Jean-Christophe has always seemed to me to flow like a river; I have said as much from the first pages." This coined the term roman-fleuve (river-novel), which has since been applied to other novel sequences in the same style.Further reading
[edit]
Many individual tomes swerve from the story of Krafft to focus on the other characters. Rolland was an admirer of Leo Tolstoy, and, as in War and Peace, a very large proportion of the work is devoted to the author's thoughts on various subjects: music, art, literature, feminism, militarism, national character, and social changes in the Third Republic, largely attributed to Krafft, although Rolland denied that he shared many traits with his fictional composer. The didactic aspects of Jean-Christophe have been criticised by many readers. In his heavy use of matter-of-fact detail, Rolland followed the methods of naturalist predecessors with whom he otherwise had little in common.
BildungsromanSee also
[edit]Wikipedia text under CC-BY-SA license -
Videos of Romain Rolland’S Jean-Christophe (in French, en Fancais)
"Jean-Christophe", de Romain Rolland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uaPuUbkznwLe grand roman visionnaire de Romain Rolland, prix Nobel de Littérature en 1916, en compagnie de Hervé Pierre, de la Comédie-Française La vie passe.6,880 views Jun 8, 2019
Le corps et l’âme s’écoulent comme un flot. Les ans s’inscrivent sur la chair de l’arbre qui vieillit. Le monde entier s’use et se renouvelle. Toi seule ne passes pas, immortelle Musique. Tu es la mer intérieure. Tu es l’âme profonde. Tu es en dehors du monde. Tu es un monde, à toi seule.
Cet éloge de la musique est né de la plume d’un mélomane, l’écrivain Romain Rolland, qui signe, en 1915, l’un de ses chefs d’œuvre, Jean-Christophe. Ce grand roman de la fraternité voit son auteur récompensé, l’année suivante, par le Prix Nobel de Littérature. Mais la prestigieuse distinction n’épargne pas Romain Rolland du scandale.
Depuis le début de la Première guerre mondiale, il est accusé de trahison pour ses idées pacifistes.
Son célèbre article, « Au-dessus de la mêlée », où il invite « la jeunesse héroïque » à vaincre la haine, lui vaut des injures de la part de ses compatriotes. Exilé en Suisse, l’écrivain, profondément humaniste, défend depuis toujours l’amitié entre les peuples. Dix ans pour venir à bout de son projet C’est en 1890, à l’âge de 24 ans, que le jeune agrégé d’histoire ébauche l’idée d’un roman d’apprentissage, qui s’inspire de la vie de Beethoven, et qui rend hommage à son maître en littérature, Goethe.
Il lui faudra dix ans pour venir à bout de ce vaste projet, commencé en 1901, achevé en 1912. Visionnaire, l’écrivain signe une œuvre prophétique, qui annonce la « boucherie » de 14-18.
« J’ai écrit la tragédie d’une génération qui va disparaître », écrit-il à la dernière page de son roman, deux ans avant la guerre. Découvrons avec Hervé Pierre la vie de Jean-Christophe Krafft Ce soir, je vous invite à parcourir cette œuvre magistrale, au ton mélancolique, qui témoigne d’un monde disparu : celui d’avant la Grande guerre, où l’art classique n’a pas encore cédé la place à l’ère moderne des machines.
Découvrons la vie romantique et romanesque de Jean-Christophe Krafft, un jeune compositeur allemand au génie capricieux, né sur les rives du Rhin, et amoureux inconditionnel de la culture française. Et pour m’accompagner dans cette épopée d’un Européen avant l’heure, j’ai le grand plaisir d’accueillir un camarade de la Comédie-Française, un immense comédien au talent de magicien : Hervé Pierre. Voici ce texte qui vous a donné l’amour des mots, et le désir de devenir acteur…
Programmation musicale : LAURENCE MONTEYROL : « Zueignung op. 10 no. 1 » de RICHARD STRAUSS PHILIPPE LEOTARD : « PAUVRE RUTEBEUF » Guillaume Gallienne Emission du samedi 22 avril 2017 France inter ÇA PEUT PAS FAIRE DE MAL
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APAD: Religion is the opium of the people-7grizzly-♂
(8927 bytes) (3036 reads) 04/12/2025 08:00:30
(5)Concur that w/ all fingers/toes up! ;-)) Respect some but-最西边的岛上-♀
(0 bytes) (3 reads) 04/12/2025 08:09:15never believed any man-made religion. A good 1. Thx 7G.-最西边的岛上-♀
(0 bytes) (1 reads) 04/12/2025 08:11:39Thanks, 西岛. I guess we got the jab before going abroad:-)-7grizzly-♂
(0 bytes) (1 reads) 04/12/2025 08:23:30Surely weDid;-) 一个人出生以后，在幼年的时候他被各种谎言所填满。当他觉醒的时候，当他成长起来的时候，-最西边的岛上-♀
(32 bytes) (11 reads) 04/12/2025 08:28:03他所做的第一件事就是呕吐，把这些谎言都呕吐出来，重新开始。-《约翰 克里斯朵夫》, translated by 傅雷-最西边的岛上-♀
(0 bytes) (3 reads) 04/12/2025 08:29:37and once hes a father, he feeds the same swill to the kids?-7grizzly-♂
(0 bytes) (2 reads) 04/12/2025 08:42:42;-))))))) I think 傅聪 傅敏 turned out to be okay :-)-最西边的岛上-♀
(0 bytes) (2 reads) 04/12/2025 08:43:06So 谎言might not be a big deal, after all?-7grizzly-♂
(0 bytes) (1 reads) 04/12/2025 08:54:08it depends. Some wokeUp from谎言, while some others stay in谎言-最西边的岛上-♀
(0 bytes) (1 reads) 04/12/2025 08:59:58as they cant handle the truth-最西边的岛上-♀
(0 bytes) (2 reads) 04/12/2025 09:03:06as said by Col. Nathan J in A Few Good Men-最西边的岛上-♀
(0 bytes) (2 reads) 04/12/2025 09:05:36:-))))))))))-最西边的岛上-♀
(0 bytes) (0 reads) 04/12/2025##########################
** Thematic Topics **
Romain Rollands Jean-Christophe is a monumental novel a Bildungsroman in the truest sense and its core themes are profound, humanistic, and deeply psychological.
???? 1. Individual Awakening and Inner Truth
Rolland champions the struggle for personal authenticity. The protagonist Jean-Christophe gradually awakens to himself by rejecting falsehoods instilled by society, culture, and even family. This aligns with the spirit of the quote you cited the idea that one must vomit out the lies to truly begin living.
????? 2. Spiritual and Moral Independence
Jean-Christophe often stands alone against prevailing opinions, choosing truth and conscience over comfort and conformity. Rolland believed deeply in the moral autonomy of the individual, a theme that echoes Tolstoyan and Beethovenian ideals of inner resistance and artistic purity.
???? 3. The Artist as a Hero
Rolland elevates the artist as a spiritual warrior, someone whose mission is not fame or pleasure, but truth, beauty, and moral courage. Jean-Christophe, as a musician, fights mediocrity and corruption with every note he writes or plays.
???? 4. Humanism Across Borders
Despite being French, Rolland admired German culture and composed this novel partly as a bridge of understanding between nations. His message is one of peace, cultural respect, and international empathy timely and timeless.
????? 5. The Conflict Between the Soul and Society
Theres a recurring tension in the book between the purity of ones soul and the compromises demanded by society its institutions, expectations, and hypocrisies. Rolland pushes the idea that the true life begins only when one sees through these and chooses to live with integrity.
???? 6. Suffering as a Path to Transformation
Jean-Christophes life is marked by deep personal loss, failure, and solitude. Yet, Rolland doesnt romanticize suffering he uses it to illustrate that growth is forged in fire, and that pain can refine a soul into something unbreakable.
**
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• 傅雷翻译《约翰·克里斯朵夫》个人哲学的融入 - TJKCB - ♀
(20269 bytes) (6 reads) 04/12/2025 21:49:12• 据说巴金说过，全中国法语翻译一共有两个，傅雷是一个，巴金自己是半个，剩下其他所有人加起来算半个。 - 最西边的岛上 - ♀
(0 bytes) (3 reads) 04/13/2025 06:05:38• But if Ur post was done by AI, then I have no comment. Thx. - 最西边的岛上 - ♀
(0 bytes) (2 reads) 04/13/2025 06:07:18• Be specific! Neither 巴金 nor 傅雷 got that right! Period. - TJKCB - ♀
(0 bytes) (1 reads) 04/13/2025 11:16:47• my point was centered around 傅雷《约翰克里斯朵夫》put his own 个人哲学 not - TJKCB - ♀
(450 bytes) (0 reads) 04/13/2025 11:32:37• U wrote the post w/o AI? ;-) 傅雷’s translation was published - 最西边的岛上 - ♀
(0 bytes) (3 reads) 04/13/2025 12:12:57• in 1937, not sure that’s post war? I will try to read the - 最西边的岛上 - ♀
(0 bytes) (1 reads) 04/13/2025 12:15:12• original book when I have time 2check it out. 再谢。 - 最西边的岛上 - ♀
(0 bytes) (0 reads) 04/13/2025 12:16:23• 说一扯二搭上三: you didn't get my point！ - TJKCB - ♀
(0 bytes) (2 reads) 04/13/2025 12:19:30• Romain Rolland commencé en 1901, achevé en 1912 Nobel 1916 - TJKCB - ♀
(203 bytes) (1 reads) 04/13/2025 12:32:06• Sorry if I missed Ur point:-) But Please allow me to reserve - 最西边的岛上 - ♀
(0 bytes) (3 reads) 04/13/2025 12:41:45 (1)• my opinion till after I read the original. Thx again! - 最西边的岛上 - ♀
(0 bytes) (2 reads) 04/13/2025 12:43:21• Remember that I don’t use AI & only have 1 head. ;-))))) - 最西边的岛上 - ♀
(0 bytes) (2 reads) 04/13/2025 12:45:33• Read twice! Well written! U r saying that Fulei distorted - 暖冬cool夏 - ♀
(0 bytes) (2 reads) 04/13/2025 13:51:53• tha author ‘s message by his own ideology/life experience. - 暖冬cool夏 - ♀
(0 bytes) (1 reads) 04/13/2025 13:53:11 (1)• Bingo! You're brilliant getting my point! - TJKCB - ♀
(0 bytes) (1 reads) 04/13/2025 14:47:57• 傅雷 should not have put his own word in Nobel Prize work - TJKCB - ♀
(68 bytes) (1 reads) 04/13/2025 14:50:05• 他将自己童年的惨痛经历重现在儿子身上，撞墙、捆绑、禁食 - TJKCB - ♀
(27898 bytes) (2 reads) 04/13/2025 14:56:33• 啊，还家暴这么严重啊！以前都不知道，他难道没有负疚心，还写得出傅雷家书。在这点上，我非常不喜欢中国传统父母的做法，有时候 - 暖冬cool夏 - ♀
(0 bytes) (2 reads) 04/13/2025 15:01:25• 看电视剧里，有母亲手扇女儿耳光，令人不齿！不能因为是父母就有这种权力。谢谢你的分享！你的英文太棒了！ - 暖冬cool夏 - ♀
(0 bytes) (0 reads) 04/13/2025 15:05:03• 是的，傅雷不是完人，他对傅聪小时候很严厉（对傅敏要松的多）。他是很负疚的，多次在他给傅聪的家书中提起。 - 最西边的岛上 - ♀
(0 bytes) (2 reads) 04/13/2025 16:39:19• 我有在北京买的三联出版社傅雷家书81年第一版，读过多遍，这么多年一直带着身边。里面第一封信就有他的负疚忏悔（照片见下）： - 最西边的岛上 - ♀
(504 bytes) (9 reads) 04/13/2025 16:43:20• 谢谢你的分享！我记得好像读过一点《傅》，居然不记得第一页：）有这样的负疚感就够了，毕竟中国人的“棍棒底下出孝子”观念太深 - 暖冬cool夏 - ♀
(0 bytes) (1 reads) 04/13/2025 17:37:06• 也可能是傅雷的严厉成就了傅聪，不过心灵一定是有创伤的。大家都是初为人父人母，所以上一代的传承很重要。往往是重复上一代的错 - 暖冬cool夏 - ♀
(0 bytes) (1 reads) 04/13/2025 17:39:23TJKCB response: "傅雷的严厉成就了傅聪" Only speculated but no control (No abuse, 傅聪 could be better as his talent carries him to his journey simply by his own drive).
• "傅雷的严厉成就了傅聪" only speculated but no control(No... - TJKCB - ♀
(189 bytes) (1 reads) 04/14/2025 12:30:42• 傅雷 put his anger onto his translation《约翰·克里斯朵夫》 - TJKCB - ♀
(0 bytes) (0 reads) 04/14/2025 12:32:14
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