另外挖坑评迷惘的风(十九)
风中玫瑰 于 2004-09-09 10:19:07
正如大家看到的，张成因著利益关系不舍宋晴，因著所谓爱的关系对晓月心怀歉疚，优柔寡断的同时，对宋晴并没有愧疚之心。
在第一、第二章里，他甚至妄想坐象齐人之福；在最近几章里，放纵自己到了嚣张的地步。
他为什么敢这样？因为按照他的理解，只要他不提出，宋晴是不会离开他的，而宋晴在事情发生之前和之后的所有的反应，也都说明了这一点。
纵看前两章，宋晴的母性大于妻性。我不是说责备宋晴，但是确实男人的有些毛病是女人惯的。
引申开去我就想，上海男人做家务，被北方男人嘲笑我可以理解，被北方女人嘲笑就不可理解了。
没有人说生下来就有责任感的，女人对家庭的责任感多一些，不是天性，是社会暗示的结果。
这个观点，顶！
雨落芭蕉 于 2004-09-09 10:28:52
其实，男人是不能惯的。当然女人也一样。:-P
记得有个姐妹曾这样说过，其实对伴侣对朋友，一生都要维持一种“客气”的距离。我的理解是，爱一个人，自然会对他或她好，这是很Natural的反应。但是不论是谁，都应该明白，任何时候不能过于迁就对方，否则一旦丧失底线，你所有的付出在对方眼里都毫无价值。而此时的你，真的是输掉全部。
加个塞儿讨论! 下面没地方了 .
Vandana 于 2004-09-09 19:04:49
我在想, 宋晴当时看到张成抱女儿亲晓月时, 就应该毫不犹意离开张成. 宋晴太棉了. 更合况, 宋晴对老公的外遇证据确凿,事实面前张成否认不了. 美国的法律又是绝对是保护这类案子的妇女儿童的. 二个儿子由张成抚养到十八岁理所当然. 宋晴不应该有后顾之犹.
我同学在美国, 家属, 一个儿子, 性格很接近宋晴, 家里家外什么都干, 勤快干净. 据说,人俩争论从没大声过. 我们这一帮都称她是老公的贤内助, 有福之人. 后来老公到北京办公司, 当总裁.大概半年之内就有小情人了. 她发现后, 马上果断提出离婚, 我同学还没有工作. 当时我们都担心她,她将来怎么生活. 可人家乐观呢.在大陆时, 人俩也是爱得一塌糊涂. 你说这事闹的?
pzhaofliu 于 2004-09-09 10:59:16
同意，女人可以为了孩子为了丈夫为了家无私奉献，但绝不可以燃烧自己牺牲自己，在经济上在感情上要自立。
回复：另外挖坑评迷惘的风(十九)
pgz 于 2004-09-09 10:43:11
I agree with you the family should be carefully maintained even after kids. Spouse should have some time away from kids, some ranmatic get aways, wife should not treat hubby as one of the kid(even though they are), should still keep life fresh and interesting, and so on, like each person should have some alone time just for the sake of being mentally healthy, ideally:-)
If you do not believe the "mother nature"(sorry for borrowing this phrase", you can look at the animal world, there is no social education to ask the mother to take care of their offSprings, but most of them do, that is for survival for the spiecy. That is from GENE. The western country has more freedom now not because of nature, just because of "civilazition", two hundred years agao, they hate dicorce as much as we do. If there is difference between them and us, that is also from gene. Where is tradition from? From people. Why the tradition are different between different race? For me, it is also from GENE:-)
Of course we are human, we have more than animals, but you have to admit the force from Gene is more powerful than any thing else. But for sure we can try to make life easier:-) / or harder:-) (Beside check kids home work, check what they need to bring to school, sent them to extra curiculum program, deliever your project on time to make your boss happy, you have to do one more thing: to keep your hubby feel you are still that 20 sth. girl:-)
Just my two cents:-)
我想你没理解我的意思。我是说对于张成，宋晴母性对于妻性。
风中玫瑰 于 2004-09-09 10:47:29
宋晴不是他妈妈，没必要做得跟他妈似的。
男人的责任感是在家庭建立后一滴一滴地从生活小事大事上积累起来的。如果你把什么都干了，他就游身事外。
没讨论母子亲情，那个真的是本能：））
回复：我想你没理解我的意思。我是说对于张成，宋晴母性对于妻性
pgz 于 2004-09-09 10:57:37
I did not feel Songqing treat Zhangchen like a son, only feel she pays more attention to the kids than to her hubby. I thought that is why you said she is more Mom than Wife. All her decision seems around kids. Which is why I sent the mail. Sorry for miss reading your words.
Well, it is "Yuanfen", there is no perfect person no matter what you do. No matter what you do, you can not change yourself. The "Yuanfen" is used up, that is the end. Anyways, it is easy said than done:-) Just cross the finger to hope I am not going to run into that situation:-)
Selfish me
看里面：
风中玫瑰 于 2004-09-09 11:03:02
“回到家里，宋晴就开始洗碗收拾。张成让宋晴宠成大少爷一般，家务活一概不做。不过宋晴干活时总喜欢他陪著说话，尤其最近见面次数少了，张成每次一回家总是尽量和宋晴在一起，宋晴走到那他跟到那。”
作者细节不多，这个细节已经足够说明问题：））
My mom and dad are like this.
raccoon_99 于 2004-09-09 11:29:40
They are very happy couples. My mom enjoys doing the housework. My father is always following her arround and talking to her.
回复：我也说一句
北京胡同串子 于 2004-09-09 15:03:03
你要想和一个有很强事业心的男人结婚，你就要作好随他转战男北，张成在美国不能达到他想达到的境界，不能实现他的价值，对他来说是一种折磨和痛苦，除非他接受这个命运，甘心为家庭不回国，
问题是宋看重张的恰恰是张的事业心，可张要回国，宋不回，而且对张回国后缺少估算，只想好的一面，如张可能发大财，不设想最坏的可能，这就造成了悲剧。
我不是为张开脱，明显的是他的错，明白人走错一步应该知道悬崖勒马。
pgx,喜欢你的平论。
回复：另外挖坑评迷惘的风(十九)
seeThruIt 于 2004-09-09 13:55:56
我不觉得水沫想把张成, 或者晓月写成个坏人. 许多事情不是当事人所能控制的. 在一个畸形的社会大环境中, 人的道德品质微不足道. 人们都是为大环境的浊浪所左右.
宋晴聪明过人, 可惜没能及早的领悟这一点, 所以没能保住她的家庭. 不过她能快刀斩乱麻, 也是难能可贵.
人有些坏毛病不等于他是个坏人：））
风中玫瑰 于 2004-09-09 14:11:12
这年头，真正的坏人和 很好的好人一样稀有。
大多数不过是滚滚红尘中的凡夫俗子。
石头鱼 于 2004-09-09 10:50:11
玫瑰，觉得张成也爱宋晴，何况还有多年感情和两个孩子不能舍 ，这个男人放纵自己爱上了两个人，结果不堪承受~~~~~
风中玫瑰 于 2004-09-09 10:53:52
在这篇文章里我看不到，只看到了习惯和利益。 你想想，一边是一年两三次的探亲，一边是日日相处，哪边的感情更实际些？
我也不觉得张还爱宋晴，
雨落芭蕉 于 2004-09-09 11:23:50
如果真的还爱着宋晴，那他的生活中就不可能出现小月。人生在世，诱惑是不可避免的。面对诱惑的时候，如果你的心里真的装着一个人，那就不会错的太远。
never got it!
pgz 于 2004-09-09 11:45:37
I never could understand that part of "father nature":-)
Look at JiaBaoYu, Love MM, also Love JJ, love xiren, also love Qingwen, do not get it why.
Have you watched "yi1 sheng1 tan4xi4", do not understand why that guy can start an affair just without seeing his wife for one month. I asked all my gal friend, they all do not understand. And all guy friend, they seem understand that pretty good:-(
回复：never got it!
雨落芭蕉 于 2004-09-09 12:06:13
男人和女人如果想达到完全理解，恐怕很难。:-)理想的关系，我想应该是相互体谅，相互尊重。完美的关系需要双方的努力，但是要想破坏两人的关系实在太容易。出了问题的夫妻，即便此后仍然在一起，我想，纵使举案齐眉，到底意难平吧？其实，我想婚姻不仅仅需要爱情，婚姻应该是思想成熟的男人女人之间的一种关系。毕竟婚姻太现实，需要几十年在一起，不起厌倦，很难。而爱情太唯美，若想和现实的婚姻结合，就要软著陆了。
回复：$5000/month = love?
文章来源: notsure222 于 2004-09-09 17:42:13
he give her most of his income, I think. doesn’t that show his appreciation of the family? maybe not love from one respect or in pure sense, but still ...
回复：回复：$5000/month = love?
Tinyherb 于 2004-09-09 19:17:53
Love starts passion. As time goes by, passion subsides ; appreciation, affection and responsiblity grow; that is real love that will last .
回复：迷惘的风(十九)
关于第三者 于 2004-09-09 08:20:25
小月是个比较精明的第三者。打 著不要钱 也不要 人的旗号， 心里却想著做著的却是要人又要钱。破坏别人的家庭！比比，宋晴真是可爱又可敬。回国是为了家庭，是妥协； 给钱给小月是为了家庭，是妥协； 放弃张诚是为了家庭，是妥协。一般的人，真的不容易做到。喜欢死宋晴了。
期待迷惘的风(二十)
回复：回复：迷惘的风(十九)
yayapan 于 2004-09-09 10:26:34
I have great sympathy towards XiaoYuan. I trust she is ture and innocent. Not as you said, all of this is just for money. She is not the kind of the girl which you described. In front of the love, she is just a little bit silly. When all the things covered by love, she got lost, lost all the instinct which she should have and does not know which way she should go. On the other side, she is the victim too. She was hurt no less than any other characters in the novel.
Anyway, nobody should be blamed. Separation is the posion to any close relationship.
It is a pity I can not type Chinese on my computer. My English is really not enough. Otherwise I would be able to express my feeling more accurately. Something subtle might be more precisely.
But I like this novel, it is great. I’d like to show my respect to the author, ShuiMuo and say thank you. Thanks for you presenting this fantastic, well written novel for us. I am looking forward to the following charpters.
In addition, I do appreciate this new way of reading. You can communicate with the authors as soon as it has been made. That is fantastic thing!!
"Not for the money" innocent
PhoenixSum 于 2004-09-09 11:42:50
It is at least not responsible if you practise your love to a married man. If she is kind, she’ve have known that this behavior will hurt another family. You are supposed to do what is right instead of what you desire.
回复："Not for the money" innocent
yayapan 于 2004-09-09 12:13:02
What I mean is: they are paying what they want to get, they are paying their desire. Unfortunately, all of them underestimated the risk they would bear, and the price they should pay. Until they realise they barely can afford. I mean, all of them.
"What you mean: ’Not for the money’ innocent??? " I do not quite understand that.
I do not suspect the point I made: I trust what XiaoYuan has done, definitely is not for money. What she has done is for a desire, a mad desire for love, for a love she should not have. This is the understanding which conveyed from the author.
People have various reasons for their desires. Some people can not resiste money, some people can sacrifice money and monarch, only for a beauty he loves, some people, like ZhangCheng, wants all but unwillingly to pay. Why can not have some people existing, like XiaoYue, madly love somebody, decently paid the price(left a total mess in her life, a baby without dad, not knowing how to survive in the future,... ect.)
If you say SongQing is innocent, as most of you said, then, I will say XiaoYue is innocent too. She is one of the victims.
That is a novel. Lots of people here discuss it with all sorts of moral criteria. I appreciate it as a novel, with righ depth and great structure.
回复："Not for the money" innocent
asdsdjfkfj 于 2004-09-09 13:07:28
The third person like XiaoYue shuld know that they can not love other person ’s husband ,Xiao Yue ’s outside showes she doesn’t want money ,but I’m sure she wants money inside her heart, she just pretend she doesn’t because she knows Zhang Cheng doesn’t love her if she show it too early ,Anyway she deserve her fate that Zhang left herbecause she is total wrong she loves married man. I hate Xaio Yue.she is not innocent,I hate ZhangCheng more
beacuse he is extremly selfish man.He just want him happy ,doesn’t care anybody else.Song should have given the chance to Zhang love someone else.this is her fault.
raccoon_99 于 2004-09-09 08:47:45
good writing, good story!!
回复：迷惘的风(十九)
pzhaofliu 于 2004-09-09 08:49:36
宋晴万里迢迢回国，原谅张成，是为了挽救婚姻给孩子一个完整的家，她最不能容忍的是张成疏忽了做父亲的责任，这使她彻底失望了，其实是绝望了。不过从一开始也没有看出张成是个好父亲，除了从中国带给孩子一些玩具以外。总而言之，张成不是个好丈夫，不是个好父亲，也不是个好情人。
说的好啊！虽然他不算坏人，可确实所有的角色都没做好。
来了 于 2004-09-09 09:56:13
估计就是鸡飞蛋打吧。晓月如果能碰到一个爱自己又能接受孩子的人，就和别人结婚吧。就是嫁给张成，也幸福不了。到时候他肯定又没完没了地想宋晴。
风中玫瑰 于 2004-09-09 09:53:28
今天仔细把前两章读了读，觉得在他们的婚姻中，宋晴母性 多于妻性──这也是张成结婚那么多年还没长大的原因。
还是那句话：男人的毛病是女人惯的
Mother nature
pgz 于 2004-09-09 10:01:09
Mother Nature made mothers more "mother than wife", it is pretty general rule in nature, that is for the sake of life:-) Unfortunately, if that is sth. to blame, you have to blame nature, not Songqing:-)
